Michigan State 35. Northwestern 27: Postgame thread
by Loretta8 on Oct 23, 2010 2:37 PM CDT
in Northwestern Wildcats Football
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Well, that was disappointing. Northwestern jumped out to a big early lead, but couldn't hold on thanks to the inspired play of Kirk Cousins, the relentless pressure from the Spartan defensive line, and the gigantic balls of Mark Dantonio.
The 'Cats did a lot of things well today, but this one really stings. Do your venting here.
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Fitz has been thoroughly outcoached this year.
I know that’s sacrilege to say around these parts, but I really feel that way. The guy is inspiring, but I haven’t been impressed with anything this team has done tactically this year. You know that play where we hand it off to the slow white guy who invariably loses two yards? Why is that still in the playbook and why do we insist on running it even though we have a dangerous passing attack. Persa should be throwing the ball 50 times. Instead, we almost ran it that much. 47 attempts when we have no running backs with any real talent is way too much. Before you all lambaste me, I am very aware that 22 of those were by Persa. I know that the O-Line has been awful and has forced SuperDan to run it a lot more than the team wants him to. However, our porous offensive line is all the more reason why we shouldn’t run the ball by design very much. If we can’t block, why are we running it?
Look at Michigan State in this one. They’re a team built on their running game, but they saw it wasn’t working (props to our front seven for stopping the rushing attack). So, Kirk Cousins throws it 43 times for more than 300 yards and 3 TDs. It’s called an adjustment, and it’s something that Coach Fitz seems wholly unaware of. No matter how many times we don’t gain any yards on the run, we still keep doing it. When we pass, we move the ball. It’s really not that difficult.
Also, is there a defense called the Cover 0? Because I think that’s what our secondary was running today.
by WestsideBrandon on Oct 23, 2010 4:09 PM CDT reply actions
the running game was pretty good today
the backs and wrs combined for 126 yards on 24 carries which is an excellent average. in the first half they had more than twice as many runs as passes and were moving the ball up and down the field for over 250 total yards.
on third and long and in passing downs when Michigan State knew we had to pass they no longer had to respect the run and their d-line was in the backfield every single play beating up Persa, which is why he was so inaccurate on the last two drives. the offensive line is to blame here for not giving him enough protection. if not for the successful running in the first half he would have taken even more of a beating.
as for the pass defense, it may have been partially to blame on the scheme but i think it had more to do with Michigan State’s receivers being too fast and athletic for the corners to handle combined with really accurate passing by Cousins downfield.
Fitz should certainly get a lot of blame for the fake punt, but it’s hard for me to find too much fault with the offensive or defensive gameplan. Michigan State is a top 10 team and there isn’t much shame in losing to them.
+1
In the second half, we really needed to extend drives. To do that, we needed to stay out of 3rd and long. In the first half, our running game allowed us to keep down and distance reasonable. That second half included a drive where our running game was solid.
Looked like we ran 3 man fronts on some plays where MSU had longer distances to first down. Unfortunately, Cousins was able to hit guys in slants (as in return thy made great grabs). Would more blitzing on long distance downs changed things? I don’t know. Agreed with loretta, it’s hard to blame the gameplan.
www.massivecreativity.com
I suppose
It was also the inability of the team to capitalize. We had a lead yes, but we needed a bigger lead. i was never comfortable in this game. This is a team that should be capable of putting up 35+ points on a regular basis, but we never seem to. We need to keep our foot on the accelerator. We have this annoying tendency to let up. I don’t think that it’s complacency, but we don’t have the killer instinct that we need.
by WestsideBrandon on Oct 23, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
plus, the more games like this that we lose, the crappier our opponent will be in our bowl game and maybe we can finally win one
PLUS ONE
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHH THEY FOUND OUR EVIL PLAN
by Rodger Sherman on Oct 24, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
How did we lose?
Any astute/devoted observer and fan of NU football should realize that at start of the 4th quarter, with possession at the 50 yard line and a 24-14 lead over the #7 team in the land, we needed to capitalize! What followed was a 2 yard trumpy run, a dropped screen pass to Jones and ultimately a chance to win the ballgame. In fact, even a single first down in that situation would have changed the complexion of the game. Conservative play-calling at that critical juncture cost us the momentum, and ultimate the ball game. My delusional Rose Bowl dreams are officially shattered for 2010!
jordan mabin
he had that dude well covered on that fake. then all the sudden he like stoped. what was with that
matthew0
"I wasn't really thinking fake at the moment."
Really?
Complete
Coaching
Fail
Period.
by buckyor on Oct 23, 2010 7:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think so.
I think you need to read between the lines on this one.
Watch the play — 10 of 11 guys on our team were CLEARLY playing fake. We didn’t rush the punter, LBs stayed on their reads watching to see if a TE tried to drop into a pass route, safeties were playing both sides of the field, the other CB was on his man….
Maybin just got turned around and/or was playing a coffin-corner punt, breaking off his guy.
Fitz will NEVER bury a player’s mistake in the media. NEVER. It’s one of his most admirable qualities, and a reason why players LOVE playing for him. So rather than embarass Maybin on that play, he admitted fault to a degree….Fitz’s other comments and quotes from the other players, as well as the way NU defended that fake, ALL suggest that everyone but Maybin was playing solid Defense on the fake.
And let’s face it — while that fake punt was huge, it alone did not decide the outcome of this game. Schmidt’s fumble, O-line failures leading to Persa being punished, coming out flat at halftime and letting MSU get some momentum going….all contributed as much if not more than that one fake punt.
no one’s asking Fitz to throw Mabin under the bus, that would be a douchebag move. But Mabin himself said he wasn’t thinking fake, which is what we are upset about. Just because the other 10 guys saw it coming doesn’t mean the team was prepared, it takes all 11 guys being ready, and that has to fall on the coaches. I really don’t see how you could argue otherwise.
I could argue otherwise...and will.
If you’re a coach and you prepare your players and tell them to think fake, and call the right set to snuff out that fake, and one guy out of the 11 players on the field fails to follow through on the assignments you give them because of a brain cramp….. that’s on that player on that one play (Maybin isn’t prone to mistakes like that, he’s a solid player most of the time), not a “coaching” failure.
Players make mistakes on individual plays, and that’s what cost us this game (fumbles, penalties). Coaching gameplan for the whole game, though? Solid. If you wanna get on any coaching staff right now, you gotta criticize the O-line coaching first, foremost, and almost exclusively — the one unit that is behind the rest of the team right now.
sorry, not buying
Your contortions to excuse the coaching staff are remarkable. It’s up to the coaching staff to ensure that the eleven guys out there on that play are looking for the fake. It’s not sufficient for them to communicate that to 10 of the 11.
I will continue to advocate for a special teams coach until I see that unit play multiple games without a goof up. I’m not talking about a guy missing a 47 yard field goal, or letting a returner gain an extra 10 yards. Those I can live with. I’m talking about bad snaps and holds, fumbled punts and kicks, guys playing punt when they should be playing pass. I can’t remember the last time we had such a game, but it hasn’t been this year, and am hard pressed to remember one from last year as well.
Okay...
First off — stop calling for a special teams coach. Almost NO teams in NCAA football have one, due to coaching limits. Should special teams be on Fitz’s plate? Maybe not….but stop acting as if we could hire someone else to work special teams only….do that, and we have to fire an existing coach and have other coaches cover their assignments.
Second — we had 10 guys playing pass, 1 guy playing punt. I’m sorry, but a PLAYER MADE A MISTAKE. That is NOT a coaching failure. Or do you think Fitz told the guys to play punt, and 10 guys got it wrong?
what, are you Fitz's publicist?
Seriously. Mabin, Dantonio and Fitzgerald himself have all said that the Cats weren’t looking for it. They are all lying or not nearly as well-informed as you are, apparently. Second, if everyone else is looking for it but Mabin- why does Hunter Bates take so long to get there as well? It’s not like the pass was a bullet;Aaron Bates just tossed it up for grabs, and if Hunter Bates is playing fake, you think he might get there.
And maybe we don’t need a separate coach for special teams, although I’d suggest that we apparently don’t need an offensive line coach, since he is incapable of preparing that previously well-regarded unit. (/snark). But apecial teams needs to be reassinged somewhere, because the incumbent coach for that unit is similarly failing in his responsibilities.
by buckyor on Oct 24, 2010 7:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Watch the play
Seriously — how is it a coaching fail if 10 guys play the fake and one guy blows it?
You’re wrong.
You say Dantonio admitted that we weren’t ready — Dantonio exploited us (brilliantly, I may add), but only because Maybin messed up and didn’t cover it as a fake. EVERY OTHER NU PLAYER WAS PLAYING FAKE. Watch the replay. Bates had assignments to the middle of the field — he released over as soon as he could, but Maybin wasn’t where he should be, but it’s hardly Bates being unprepared — he had his assignment.
Maybin didn’t think the fake was coming. Every other guy did. And Coach Fitz, being upstanding and refusing to make a player look bad publicly or whine, did the right thing and accepted responsibility.
As for your idea of taking special teams off of Fitz, fair enough….but keep in mind, we have about FOUR OTHER COACHES already working on aspects of that unit — blocking, gunners, returners, kickers, etc. Special teams isn’t Fitz coaching with NO ONE ELSE. He’s the coordinator, but it’s a team effort by the coaching staff….
I just did watch it
And confirmed that you have no idea what you are talking about.
You’re full of shit on Bates’ assignment. Where is Hunter Bates lined up on that play? He’s not playing safety; he’s lined up at the 10, way too far back to make any sort of play on a fake. He’s waiting for the punt. Oh wait, did he fuck up his assignment too?
Each of the gunners has single coverage, and everyone else but Bates is within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage (it was 4th and about 11). These guys are looking for a fake? You’re shitting me.
Come on...
He was playing a fake punt.
You know why he’s lined up at the 10? Because it’s a fake PUNT — i.e. if they PUNT, someone needs to be there to field it/call for the fair catch to prevent MSU from downing it inside the 5. That’s the crappy thing about that situation — NU has to play BOTH the fake AND the punt, because MSU can hurt you either way.
If MSU HAD punted and downed it inside the 5 (because we were playing straight up D in anticipation of the fake, and because Bates is an all-conference punter who totally could have nailed us there), then MSU’s defense can force a safety (making it an 8 point game at that point and giving them the ball with great field position) or block a punt in our endzone after holding on defense (getting a safety/TD). Bates also has to cover the middle of the field/TEs (which, not so coincidentally was the fake MSU ran against ND, so it’s not unexpected/bad gameplanning to be spying the TEs).
Honestly, why do you care what I think? Why does it matter to you? One play (and a non-scoring play at that) did not single-handedly cause this loss….we lost because we did not execute enough throughout the game (whether it was Schmidt’s goalline fumble, the inability to move the chains at the start of the 2nd half, not blocking on the O-line, the inability to run the 2 minute offense for the win, etc.). The coaching staff came up with a gameplan that gave us a shot to beat a better/more talented team, and it almost worked. We just didn’t execute….
Our coaching staff isn’t perfect, by any means. But claiming “coaching fail” on this one misses the point that our gameplan put us squarely in the position to win.
our overall gameplan was good
I will acknowledge that. We came out ready to play.
But that play was a coaching fail, pure and simple, regardless of whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not. You cannot look at how we were lined up for that play and tell me, with a straight face, that we were looking for a fake. We clearly were not. That’s not a defensive formation in any way, shape or form. Where Bates is lined up the only way he could make a play is is someone ran a post right at him. That may be the way they play defense at Indiana or Michigan, perhaps, but’ Cmon, Man.
That’s not a defensive formation in any way, shape or form.
Except, you know, for the inconvenient fact that our defensive personnel, and not our special teams unit, was on the field.
bros.
calm down.
somebody screwed up. neither pat fitzgerald nor jordan mabin had their best day saturday. assigning blame is the least important of things.
by Rodger Sherman on Oct 25, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't stop now , boys
Let ’em fight, RS, all week long if they need to. Boys will be boys…
Purple Flag on Saturday
www.FourStarFootball.com
by Purple Flag on Saturday on Oct 25, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
So who else was out there besides Bates and Mabin, both of whom are on the punt return team?
And what the hell were they doing set up in that formation? Because that’s no defensive formation I’ve seen. At least not one designed to stop the other team from converting a 4th and 11.
for the record
this will be in my recap but
i spent the 15 seconds preceding the punt yelling “ITS A FAKE! IT’S A FAKE! IT’S A FAAAAAAAAAAKEE!!!!!”
the things i yelled after it was a fake were horrific, violent, and made the guy standing next to me give me a dirty look.
by Rodger Sherman on Oct 24, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
2 plays made the difference
1. The goal line fumble. Tough to stomach, but that’s football.
2. The fake punt. ’Cats need a special teams coach. Kicking, both offensive and defensive, has cost NU soooooo many times for sooooo long.
From my point, coaching was the difference in this one.
Purple Flag on Saturday
www.FourStarFootball.com
by Purple Flag on Saturday on Oct 23, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions
hey
i said this exact thing about 40 times yesterday. congrats, great minds think alike.
by Rodger Sherman on Oct 24, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
my 2 cents
O.K., so I’m not going to do my usual Demos bashing. He did everything they needed him to do today. But he had the same thing happen last year after melting down in Champaign, and then hitting everything against Wisconsin the next week. So I still reserve the right to be skeptical until I see he sustains it.
Jacob Schmidt can’t hold on to the ball. I wonder if this will push him down to a non-starting role. That fumble was not good.
After MSU pulled off the fake field goal against Notre Dame, we should have seen the fake punt coming. Their guy was wide open and untouched.
The Cats played much better than they did against Purdue, but I was really disappointed in the O-line today. Some of you have been pretty critical of them this season, and today I saw it. Persa had no time to set up in the pocket and many times had to take off running or dump a short screen pass. That needs to be better.
I was encouraged by some of Adonis Smith’s runs today.
impressed by our frosh
lots were playing and getting the ball in key parts of the game. there is hope for the future.
but in the end, this game was devastating. i’m crestfallen. i’m a sad panda…err wildcat.
Coming Back
MSU and NU have traditionally been the best B-10 teams to come back from huge double digit deficits. Why, the can easily go to a speed passing game, rely on quick 3 and out on defense and turnover touchdowns, use special team as an offensive weapon and make very few mistakes late.
These traits typically define very good teams and when applied to big ball-games, they define champions. Usually the best teams are teams that can erase a 10, 14, 21 point margin. Think LSU, Florida, WVU, Oregon, Utah, B-State et. al. With that said, I see the Cats’ are having difficulty coming back like we have expected in the past. We rarely protect leads, make bad mistakes, for-go solid tackling to try to strip the ball, cannot rely on special teams for a play and then struggle in the 4th to pull one out. Of the chatter, about why we are having troubles, this simple aspect will make or break the remainder of the year. This team is not comfortable with having to come back down a FG let alone a touchdown or two.
Except...
…the results at Minnesota don’t agree with you. We were down for a lot of that game, and came back on clutch plays to win.
MSU is a very good team, and we had them on the ropes. No shame in losing this game, although I will share in the lamentations of those above that being THAT close to an upset victory makes the loss all the more painful.
MSU has a bit of that team of destiny along with being very good.
Like the TD catch that was bobbled at first and the fake punt—they still had to execute it. They remained calm and fought there way back. The fumble was just killer, but overall NU was disciplined after a tough start with penalties finishing with 6 and only one more TO at the end with Persa int. The problem was that MSU was very good in both departments with 4 penalties and 1 TO. The running game was good overall but I believe in the second half Adonis was not used all that much. NU played hard and no shame in losing to a top ten team. Persa played so well and I know he would like to have those last two series back—it reminded me of Mallet on his last two series against Bama. Hope the team can start to come out on the winning side of these close ones—there is something to this. Go Cats! Beat the Hoosiers.
"(actor James Urbaniak) Robert Crumb: You turned yourself into a comic hero?
(actor Paul Giamti) Harvey Pekar: Sorta, yeah. But no idealized s***. No phony bs. The real thing, y'know? Ordinary life is pretty complex stuff.
(Real) Havey Pekar: I felt more alone that week than any. Sometimes I'd feel a body lying next to me like an amputee feels a phantom limb. All I did was think about Jennie Gerhardt and Alice Quinn and all the decades of people I had known. The more I thought, the more I felt like crying. Life seemed so sweet and so sad, and so hard to let go of in the end. But hey, man, every day is a brand new deal, right? Just keep on working and something's bound to turn up."
From the movie "American Splendor"
Typical Cats football...
Mabin had a mental fuck-up…it happens. Fitz had the team lined up as if they were anticipating a fake and everyone watching was thinking (or screaming) ‘Watch the fake’. Was this call genious because it was too obvious and thus seemingly unlikely, or was Dantonio so arrogant he thought it would be a complete surprise..again?
And can someone tell me what Mabin was doing on this play? Was he thinking ‘Fake’ and just got turned around or did he forget to play the fake and have an “Oh Shit” panic moment as he tried to find his man?
by RebelsforRonPaul on Oct 25, 2010 10:27 PM CDT reply actions
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