But I thought small private schools in power conferences aren't allowed to recruit well?

Rodger tweeted about this, and I thought it was prevalent. Vanderbilt is on a recruiting tear in football, which goes against everything I'm told about recruiting. I spent most of my first year at NU taking heat from people for my general pessimism, which included our recruiting. We're usually near the bottom of the Big Ten in rankings and seem to top out at 3-star recruits. I'm usually met with the same rhetoric about us being a small private school in a big conference, but that's the same situation Vandy is in. So why can't we do it?

Fitz had some quote about him being a 0-star recruit and a two time All-American, but he's not walking through that door (as a player, at least). I'm not asking for another All-American, but if we're going to compete for the occasional Big Ten title (which I'm told is a fair expectation), then we're going to need to step our game up in this department. Just my opinion.

11 months ago WestsideBrandon 16 comments 0 recs |

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i wish they'd kept the turkey inseminator guy!

I actually think Fitz is doing a good job with recruiting this year, but this Vandy guy is worrisome. The Azubuke guy was looking at NU if I remember correctly…

by Rodger Sherman on Jul 5, 2011 11:40 AM CDT reply actions

I'm no expert an this stuff, but don't we have a lot of unranked guys?

Like, they don’t have stars next to their names. Is this because they’re not good enough or it isn’t worth scouting them since they’ve committed fairly early? I don’t think he’s a particularly bad recruiter, but it’s an area that NU should look to improve.

The logic with most fans after three straight bowl games is that Fitz must get a lot out of these recruits. I don’t know how much I agree with that, though my opinion isn’t worth much since the only season I saw was this past year (which was admittedly disappointing for most fans). I guess I’m just concerned because, even if you take out Fitz’s (is that grammatically correct?) first two years, of the downward trend. 9-4, 8-5, 7-6 over the past three years, which I am aware is an extremely small sample size. You can also look at the dearth of draft picks (including none last year which was the first graduating class recruited with Fitz at the helm). From 1995 to 2005, NU had four All-Americans (five if you include Fitz twice).

To be clear, I’m not asking for All-Americans or first round draft picks on a regular basis. Just saying that it’s possible and that I don’t necessarily see a definitive upward trend. I’m perfectly fine giving Fitz time to prove himself in this department, but I’ll be a little more concerned if the next few years have similar results.

by WestsideBrandon on Jul 5, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions

i'm of the belief

that those people haven’t been assigned star ratings yet. i could be wrong.
i’m also of the belief that stars, although a generally good indicator of how good a player are, are really silly. it’s just one indicator of one person’s belief of how good a player is, and it seems like 90 percent of the guys being recruited by FBS programs are 3-star, which is weird.

by Rodger Sherman on Jul 5, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes!

Add Stanford, Duke, UVA, Wake Forest, Berkeley, and UNC as Top 25 academic schools that compete in BCS conferences very well. However, remember that NU is the ONLY one with tough academic restrictions.

This has been my point from day #1 on this msg board, whether it is Fitz or Carmody, I’m tired of hearing excuses. Are you in the Big Ten? Yes. Do you cash Big Ten checks? Yes. Well then, compete like other Big Ten schools.

When your AD says they are about compliance, well I’m not about that. I’m about winning. Enjoy fundraising with compliance and academics as your platform, I, as a N Club member, will NEVER donate until they show me an ability to win.

Good to see my man WestsideB!

TQ’s Westside
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsP0LsAU4lg

by NU Alumni - Class of 2002 on Jul 5, 2011 11:47 AM CDT reply actions

Let's recap, shall we?

Northwestern’s in-conference winning percentage since Fitz took over in 2006: .450 (18-22)

Stanford: .489 (22-23)
Duke: .125 (5-35)
UVA: .400 (16-24)
Wake Forest: .488 (20-21)
Cal: .533 (24-21)
UNC: .425 (17-23)

Keep in mind, Fitz’s record would look better by comparison when you take out that 2006 team, which he took over in early July after RW’s untimely death (with a new QB after losing Basanez, not having expected to be head coach, and with coordinators that he would come to jettison when the team was “his”)…he’d be .500 over that time, which is better than every team you list above save Stanford (.583 over that period), and against what you’d probably agree was tougher in-conference competition (ACC is weak, Pac-10 still trails Big Ten).

But please, sit on the sideline with your donation until we “win” at levels comparable to those other fine upstanding institutions.

(That being said….yeah, we need to recruit better. The performance of this team WITHOUT 4 and 5 star recruits under Fitz shows that Fitz and the staff are EXCELLENT COACHES insofar as they get more out of less than other coaches that recruit better….and how might we recruit better? Ummmm…..facilities, anyone? Without better training/playing facilities, guys are going to leave to go to schools with better weight rooms, etc. Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and donate if you’re so serious about competing….you can even target/specify/require they spend the money exactly where you want.)

by Chadnudj on Jul 5, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

I was preparing a similar post

and I would just add graduation rates of those schools:

Duke- 96%
Northwestern- 92%
Vanderbilt- 91%
Stanford- 89%
Wake Forest- 81%
UNC- 80% and eleventy billion ncaa violations
UVA- 68%
Cal- 64%

and you left off Vanderbilt’s conference winning percentage of .219.

In summary, in the last 4 years Northwestern has won at a rate higher than every school that you list except Stanford (whose coach left as soon as he possibly could) and graduated players at a higher rate than everyone except Duke (who fired a coach in that time for losing 25 consecutive conference games). Basically, you tried to make a point by listing schools that demonstrate the exact opposite.

If you would like to actually something up, see if you can find the last coach at any of those schools to win more often than Fitz, graduate at least 75% of their players, and stay more than 5 years.

by nuftw on Jul 5, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Whoa!

Fantastic analysis ChadNUDJ and NUFTW, I stand corrected. I still think Pat F is ‘overrated and overhyped’, but these numbers do not lie. Chad, I appreciate you doing conference only numbers. However, please don’t ‘exclude’ one year, any school could do that and make a number look better, if Pat F coached the first team to 8-0, we would count it in his record. NUFTW, graduation rates don’t do much for me.

I am surprised at how bad Stanford and UNC are doing those times, wow! I’d still be Stanford and have last year than consistent 3-5 to 5-3, but I fully recognize that is a personal preference. Majority of people like consistent bowls, no matter how bad. But, once again, personal preference.

Also, my meager donation would be to getting a new basketball coach, not building facilities.

by NU Alumni - Class of 2002 on Jul 5, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Just about everyone here would take Stanford's performance over the last few years

at least right up until the point Harbaugh books it for the NFL. Bargaining like that doesn’t really lead anywhere though. No one says “we should lose a couple more games this year so we win a couple more next year”.

I think most reasonable fans would agree that Fitzgerald’s first year was an extraordinary situation. I would be more inclined to throw out every coach’s first year record than to count 2006 as in any way indicative of Fitzgerald’s abilities as a coach.

As far as the basketball program, I tend to agree that it has substantially underperformed, especially considering the number of “Northwestern-type” schools that have had much more success (unlike football). I’m always torn on facilities vs coach vs players arguments. Obviously better players would be the biggest improvement, but to recruit NU probably needs a better coach, but to get a better coach NU probably needs better facilities. Facilities are not the most direct problem, but improvements help with the other two problems.

by nuftw on Jul 5, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks for the compliments.

To be clear, though, the numbers I listed above DID list all of Fitz’s years. I then pointed out that if you EXCLUDE his first year (where he was thrust unexpectedly into the head coaching role in July without a spring practice, with his team reeling from the death of its coach, and without an experienced QB since Basanez had graduated and they were looking at Brewer/Bacher/Kafka to step up), he vaults to 2nd overall for the 2007-2010 period in terms of in-conference record (Stanford is the only one better off)….so I am comparing apples to apples, as it were.

I, too, would like a Stanford-esque “high” performance ever 3-4 years, but I’m also loving Fitz’s consistency — having a bowl game to look forward to every year and/or the extra practice is fun as a fan, and recruits WILL start to notice that you’re winning more on the field.

Then again, keep in mind we’re nearly there — the 2008 team that went 9-4 lost VERY winnable games to Indiana (21-19 in Bloomington, in a game in which Bacher and Sutton both got hurt) and in the Alamo Bowl to Mizzou (30-23 in OT, which included the disastrous punt to Maclin and a missed Demos kick that would have put us in position to win the game, as I recall). 2009’s 8-5 team was tied or in the lead during the 2nd half of every game they lost (Minny, Syracuse, PSU, MSU, Auburn).

I know we can play the “what-if” game all day and in either direction (we coulda lost to Minny, or Iowa, or even Duke in 2008; losing leads/ties in the 2nd half can be taken as a sign your conditioning isn’t good/your coaching staff doesn’t make good halftime adjustments), but 11-2 was a real close possibility in 2008 (and one we might have achieved with a fully healthy Sutton, perhaps), and at least 11-2 was possible again in 2009. And my personal belief is that 2010 would have seen Northwestern at 9-4 if Persa had been healthy the final 3 games (he would have cutdown on turnovers and sustained drives, allowing the defense to rest and making us MUCH more competitive against Illinois — where we down just 3 at halftime, and 10 after 3 quarters without him, and where Illinois held the ball 41 FREAKING MINUTES — and Texas Tech, where we lost by just 7 behind still-inexperienced QBs.

Unrelated….but I’m VERY positive about this year’s team. Trumpy ran for 530 yards last year as a redshirt freshmen playing significant time in just 8 games, while Adonis Smith managed 196 yards on just 41 carries all year AS A FRESHMAN. Ebert and Dunsmore are finally healthy for a full offseason of conditioning, and will be joined by a talented sophomore class of Tony Jones, Rashad Lawrence, and Venric Mark. Persa’s recovery is a question mark, but all signs point to him being on schedule or ahead of schedule. The O-line is one of the most experienced in the nation. Our secondary is solid and experienced (save Matthews, who’s newer to the position but still a senior). Our LBs have talent/depth. Our special teams specialists are generally VERY strong (Williams on punts and Mark on returns, in particular). If we can manage a pass rush and see some guys step up on the D-line…..well, it could be a special year in Evanston.

by Chadnudj on Jul 6, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions